<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"></div>Jörg<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">, I believe there should be no problem in OS integration of OpenZFS in illumos. In fact the concern now is quite the opposite: how to decouple ZFS from the rest of illumos core technologies and enable clean re-use and open collaboration. </div>
</span><font face="arial, sans-serif" size="4">For now the illumOS implementation of ZFS is ok in itself and fits well in illumos as it is the de facto upstream of all the other implementations, but a better way to collaborate than today's ad hoc processes should always be welcome.</font><br>
</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><font face="arial, sans-serif" size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large"><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-size:small"><div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;display:inline"><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-size:small"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;display:inline"></div>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:28:47 +0100<br>From: Joerg Schilling <<a href="mailto:Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de">Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de</a>><br>
<br><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">The problem with OpenZFS is that is does not have an own code repository. In<br>
addition, I have not yet been able to find the documentation of the general<br>method used for implementing enhancements. Once I could review this method and<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;display:inline">
</div>it turns out that the current OpenZFS code still fits into OpenSolaris, I am<br>willing to upgrade.<br><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;display:inline"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;display:inline">
</div><br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-size:small">
<div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Jörg</span><br>
_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><p style="margin:0.4em 0px 8pt;line-height:21px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
</p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;display:inline"></div>AFAIK, unification is in progress (?) to integrate the ZFS implementations<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"> </div>in different OS'es into a platform-independent central repository with minimal platform code differences. Preliminary efforts will necessarily include: splitting ZPL into platform-independent and platform-specific parts; and moving illumos/Solaris-specific code out of the main files, and probably establishing OpenZFS as an official and separate<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">
</div>special sub-project (spin-off) under the umbrella of the illumos Foundation (as the nonprofit organization (NPO) to hold the assets of OpenZFS) where upstream collaboration can happen between developers of the different implementations.<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">
Since OpenSolaris was, and now illumos (as open source successor) is the source of all these implementations, and as the de facto upstream home of these, I hope illumos would step up its leadership in this direction.</div>
<p></p><p style="margin:0.4em 0px 8pt;line-height:21px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial;line-height:normal"></span></p>
<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"><br></div><p></p><p></p><p style="margin:0.4em 0px 8pt;line-height:21px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><font size="4">Here are the links referring to this effort:</font></p>
<p style="margin:0.4em 0px 8pt;line-height:21px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><a rel="nofollow" class="" href="http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/post_content.html?post_id=20140121130628:B7EACD0C-82C6-11E3-A3C7-8D9CF362376F&address=002" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(102,51,102);text-decoration:none">Matt Ahrens' suggestion</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" class="" href="http://blog.delphix.com/matt/2013/12/05/openzfs-developer-summit-hackathon" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(102,51,102);text-decoration:none">OpenZFS Developer Summit & Hackathon - Matt Ahrens</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" class="" href="http://sun.systemnews.com/articles/189/3/zfs/33711" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(102,51,102);text-decoration:none">OpenZFS Developer Summit - November 18-19, 2013</a><br><a rel="nofollow" class="" href="http://www.beginningwithi.com/2013/11/18/openzfs-developer-summit" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(102,51,102);text-decoration:none">OpenZFS Developer Summit | deirdre's notes</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" class="" href="http://www.slideshare.net/MatthewAhrens/openzfs-code-repository" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(102,51,102);text-decoration:none">OpenZFS code repository</a><br><a rel="nofollow" class="" href="http://open-zfs.org/wiki/Reduce_code_differences" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(102,51,102);text-decoration:none">Reduce code differences - OpenZFS</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" class="" href="http://open-zfs.org/wiki/FAQ#Are_there_plans_to_merge_the_different_repositories.3F" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(102,51,102);text-decoration:none">OpenZFS platform-independent central repository</a></p>
<div><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-size:small"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large">I believe efforts to grow the ZFS community by organizing OpenZFS is a perfect example and microcosm of what has to be done in illumos/OpenIndiana: growing user-base and implementation by shrinking the code, namely splitting to manageable pieces to maximize re-use in different contexts, minimize code differences, hence increase collaboration and synergy among developers.</div>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Sincerely yours,<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">
Seth Nimbosa,<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large;display:inline"></div><font size="1" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><a href="http://twitter.com/nimbosa" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/nimbosa</a><br>
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</div></div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Joerg Schilling <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de" target="_blank">Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="">seth Nimbosa <<a href="mailto:darth.serious@gmail.com">darth.serious@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> The reason we need a minimum of criteria for collaboration is precisely<br>
> because the different distributions have different focus, approach, and use<br>
> case scenarios in mind, but a set of core features that will make it to a<br>
> unified kernel will be for everyone's benefit. Additional layers will be<br>
> built upon this basic core and the abstraction of these feature-sets and<br>
> their encapsulation from the layers below and above it will ensure that<br>
> there is more or less a predictable and uniform way each of these layers<br>
> interact together and how they behave on top of the core. I mean each<br>
> distro-specific feature-set will be spun out and encapsulated into separate<br>
> layers of development on top of the kernel (and these layers will be<br>
> slightly or wildly different in each distribution) but the core will remain<br>
> mainly intact but dynamically developed jointly by the different distros in<br>
> an upstream manner.<br>
<br>
</div>Layers can be put on top of something that is able to support the potential<br>
layers.<br>
<br>
If you e.g. create a too small floor slab, you will have no space for a terrace<br>
at your house.<br>
<br>
If we like to have success with a common development base, we need to create<br>
such a base in a way that does not prevent some of the participants from<br>
implementing their goals. This of course only works if the participants have a<br>
veto right for changes that might compromise their goals. Do you believe that<br>
we will be able to have a moderated discussion that leads to such a common base?<br>
<br>
I suspect that this is the most critical part.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> The tug and pull of Jorg and Peter's arguments is healthy for our<br>
> community. This way we can strike a balance between the tyranical standard<br>
> approach with a rigid set of feature compliance and the very fuzzy<br>
> definition of what OpenSolaris-based distros are evolving into. By keeping<br>
> our criteria for collaboration at a minimum, we are inviting more synergy<br>
> between developers on the basic general stuff and at the same time<br>
> promoting more choices how to implement different solutions to the same<br>
> familiar problems and opening more ways to implement new solutions to needs<br>
> unforeseen or poorly addresed before.<br>
<br>
</div>Such a minimum will not be created if the common base is missing features.<br>
We need to find a way to agree on what must be in the minimum set of the common<br>
base and we need to agree on how to add new things.<br>
<div class=""><br>
<br>
> > I am willing to give other people enough room and I guess that you would<br>
> do the same. So let us see whether OI is willing to colaborate. As I<br>
> mentioned since a long time: OpenSolaris has not enough people to make each<br>
> job twice, so we need to collaborate if we like OpenSolaris to survive.<br>
</div>> ???><br>
> ???><br>
> ???> Jörg<br>
<div class="">><br>
> We must put this to practice.<br>
> I believe the best is yet to come for free OpenSolaris-based systems.<br>
<br>
</div>I mentioned that we would need a moderator, if you take this role, let's see<br>
what we can achieve.<br>
<div class=""><div class="h5"><br>
Jörg<br>
<br>
--<br>
<a href="mailto:EMail%3Ajoerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de">EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de</a> (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin<br>
<a href="mailto:js@cs.tu-berlin.de">js@cs.tu-berlin.de</a> (uni)<br>
<a href="mailto:joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de">joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de</a> (work) Blog: <a href="http://schily.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://schily.blogspot.com/</a><br>
URL: <a href="http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/" target="_blank">http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/</a> <a href="ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily</a><br>
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