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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/24/15 01:18 AM, ken mays via
oi-dev wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66744"><span>Nikolai,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66742"><span><br>
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Hi, my name is Nikola (without 'i') ;)<br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52039"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52038">As far as Intel DRM
work for illumos, that is proposed for GSoC 2015 development
which ends Q4 2015.</span></div>
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It is great to know. <br>
It is then unknown what people with Intel graphics will do with
their hardware, that want to install on and test Hipster in
meantime?<br>
Also removing support for older graphics is never discussed anywhere
as I know (we were just hit by update and people started reporting
disastrous effects to their desktops). It is just done without
asking.<br>
Maybe reconsider of leaving supported Xorg and drivers in their
place or with an old/new name so it could be auto recognized and
used?<br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52036"><span><br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52034"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66740">As far as Martin,
there is Martin's OpenSXCE distro. He currently mentioned a
new release.</span></div>
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<br>
There's no source code that follows OpenSXCE releases, correct me if
I am wrong.<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52034"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66754">Also, there is
Tribblix. Both distros are desktop-centric and support older
Intel GPU chipsets (but not the newer ones). There is still
the Hipster-20141010 ISO release you use today. <br>
</span></div>
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<br>
So you suggest moving from OI Hipster to other distro if wanting to
continue using existing hardware?<br>
<br>
It is funny to call Hipster ISOs - releases, because it could be
said that then publishers that are installed with them could receive
updates and support?<br>
Which I am not sure it right, because actual reason ISOs and freezes
of Hipster exist is because Hipster re-build all packages all the
time and because updating takes longer and longer, there is need for
starting from blank history of updates, so that installing packages
dont' consume so much RAM and takes so long, not tend to give
support?<br>
Also ISOs are there in Hipster to be able to install it on bare
metal/hardware , because updating from /dev to Hipster last time
worked almost 2 years ago and no one actually care to have release
that could update from /dev.<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52032"><span><br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52028"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52030">As far as Hipster,
there are the supported ISO releases. The Hipster-2015 IPS
repo is a moving target (considered 'dev', bleeding edge, or
'hair on fire' development) not for general production or </span>day-to-day
operations. There are other snapshots that may produce
'tested' package releases - which is really what you are
discussing. True development releases are never for the
general public (aka users) - if untested by 'QA'.</div>
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<br>
We need then something that actually IS for end users as a product
of an effort.<br>
Hipster is not that kind of product, and yes, there is need for
tested product.<br>
<br>
As I used Hipster for exactly everyday work for a long time (and
reported all bugs I could on IRC and lists) , I must confess I have
seen accumulation of bugs without fixing.<br>
Is it better "updating everything and not caring for introduced
bugs" or "have working AND development releases separate from each
other", with clear intent that updates work - is maybe better
solution?<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52024"><br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52022">If you are
tracking new releases from Hipster Dev which happens to plunge
your desktop environment into a dark abyss, remember the rule:
Either press the panic button or don't do it!!!</div>
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That would not be the case IF Hipster would have "entire" package
numbered on every update,<br>
so that user can update to specific point in time in Hipster
updates, <br>
to debug what change break what already working function of an OS.<br>
You always get "latest" Hipster , with no way of turning a step back
and think if update was introducing more bugs of fixing existing
ones.<br>
<br>
With Boot Environments on top of ZFS, we using and testing OI have
best possible solutions for testing it is just that we don't use
what we have to the full.<br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52020"><br>
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<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52020">The drop of
support for the older Intel driver is by design of the newer X
infrastructure - not us. We are moving to the newer Xorg Intel
driver(s) and when Intel DRM for illumos is in place - we will
strike the iron while hot... <br>
</div>
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So as I understand, Intel support for OI Hipster will never come
back,<br>
and there is nothing to do, but to roll separate distro or use other
distro but OI Hipster so that graphics could continue to work? (Or
wait for 2 years for illumos DRM to land...)<br>
<br>
I think it is _much_ more important for OI in general to actually
support present and existing users and hardware at a moment.<br>
It is all great to have newer hardware support but I think that
removing driver and Xorg support for existing widespread grahics
hardware, will toss away new users from testing "bleading edge"
development releases, and is disastrous to the future of OI Hipster
project.<br>
<br>
I suggest there could be solution of leaving Xorg and driver support
where it is for existing intel graphics users. I don't see any
benefit of tossing it away.<br>
<br>
Thing is, I have been wrestling with Hipster for a very long time
now and I don't see a point of it anymore.<br>
There are no formed teams, there are no pointed and publicly
discussed goals for a project.<br>
<br>
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