<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7567" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7573">Nikola,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7567" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7567" dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7640"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_8675">On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:03 AM, Nikola M <minikola@gmail.com> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7599"><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7598"><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7597"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7641"> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7596"><div id="yiv8923596857"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595"><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv8923596857moz-cite-prefix" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_19068">On 02/24/15 01:18 AM, ken mays via
oi-dev wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66744"><span>Nikolai,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66742"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Hi, my name is Nikola (without 'i') ;)<br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52039"><span id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52038">As far as Intel DRM
work for illumos, that is proposed for GSoC 2015 development
which ends Q4 2015.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
It is great to know. <br clear="none">
It is then unknown what people with Intel graphics will do with
their hardware, that want to install on and test Hipster in
meantime?<br clear="none">
Also removing support for older graphics is never discussed anywhere
as I know (we were just hit by update and people started reporting
disastrous effects to their desktops). It is just done without
asking.<br clear="none">
Maybe reconsider of leaving supported Xorg and drivers in their
place or with an old/new name so it could be auto recognized and
used?<br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_36115">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_36114">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52036"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52036"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_36113">----> They can use previous releases. There are many times when a new OS release drops support for previous hardware (or software) - without much forewarning to existing customers. But, we actually did mention it and it is mentioned if you follow the X release notes (and previous implementations and updates of Solaris X implementations and blogs/news/articles). There was a five year history to this discussion of moving to a newer X infrastructure for OI. You can only boil an egg so long before it cracks...</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52036"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52036"><br></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52034"><span id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66740">As far as Martin,
there is Martin's OpenSXCE distro. He currently mentioned a
new release.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none">
There's no source code that follows OpenSXCE releases, correct me if
I am wrong.<br clear="none">
<br>---> Martin mentioned he'd provide source code to his supporters. This is mentioned on his distro release and was in a previous blog. Also, some of his work pulled from existing consolidation source models. Just ask him </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr">what his current process is if you want it.<br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_42612">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_42611">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52034"><span id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_66754">Also, there is
Tribblix. Both distros are desktop-centric and support older
Intel GPU chipsets (but not the newer ones). There is still
the Hipster-20141010 ISO release you use today. <br clear="none">
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none">
So you suggest moving from OI Hipster to other distro if wanting to
continue using existing hardware?<br clear="none">
<br>---> No, we'd like for you to stay. But, I do mention similar alternatives that may meet your needs today or use of the officially provided OI 'releases'.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr"> <br clear="none">
It is funny to call Hipster ISOs - releases, because it could be
said that then publishers that are installed with them could receive
updates and support?<br clear="none">
Which I am not sure it right, because actual reason ISOs and freezes
of Hipster exist is because Hipster re-build all packages all the
time and because updating takes longer and longer, there is need for
starting from blank history of updates, so that installing packages
dont' consume so much RAM and takes so long, not tend to give
support?<br clear="none">
Also ISOs are there in Hipster to be able to install it on bare
metal/hardware , because updating from /dev to Hipster last time
worked almost 2 years ago and no one actually care to have release
that could update from /dev.<br clear="none">
<br>---> There is no official release yet. The lead release manager usually tests migration to the latest ISO release and backward compatibility. But that is due to workload and volunteer resources available to handle that.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_71208">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_71207">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52032"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52028"><span id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52030">As far as Hipster,
there are the supported ISO releases. The Hipster-2015 IPS
repo is a moving target (considered 'dev', bleeding edge, or
'hair on fire' development) not for general production or </span>day-to-day
operations. There are other snapshots that may produce
'tested' package releases - which is really what you are
discussing. True development releases are never for the
general public (aka users) - if untested by 'QA'.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none">
We need then something that actually IS for end users as a product
of an effort.<br clear="none">
Hipster is not that kind of product, and yes, there is need for
tested product.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
As I used Hipster for exactly everyday work for a long time (and
reported all bugs I could on IRC and lists) , I must confess I have
seen accumulation of bugs without fixing.<br clear="none">
Is it better "updating everything and not caring for introduced
bugs" or "have working AND development releases separate from each
other", with clear intent that updates work - is maybe better
solution?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_73811">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_73810">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52024"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52022">If you are
tracking new releases from Hipster Dev which happens to plunge
your desktop environment into a dark abyss, remember the rule:
Either press the panic button or don't do it!!!</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
That would not be the case IF Hipster would have "entire" package
numbered on every update,<br clear="none">
so that user can update to specific point in time in Hipster
updates, <br clear="none">
to debug what change break what already working function of an OS.<br clear="none">
You always get "latest" Hipster , with no way of turning a step back
and think if update was introducing more bugs of fixing existing
ones.<br clear="none">
<br>With Boot Environments on top of ZFS, we using and testing OI have
best possible solutions for testing it is just that we don't use
what we have to the full.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr"><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd87194"><br clear="none">
</div><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd87194">---> Good points. There was work on this effort, and maybe we need to have better checkpoints in place.<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_73821"><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd77209">
</div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_73820"><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd79562">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52020"><br clear="none">
</div>
</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv8923596857yui_3_16_0_1_1424734506569_52020"><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd44703">The drop of
support for the older Intel driver is by design of the newer X
infrastructure - not us. We are moving to the newer Xorg Intel
driver(s) and when Intel DRM for illumos is in place - we will
strike the iron while hot... </div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
So as I understand, Intel support for OI Hipster will never come
back,<br clear="none">
and there is nothing to do, but to roll separate distro or use other
distro but OI Hipster so that graphics could continue to work? (Or
wait for 2 years for illumos DRM to land...)<br clear="none">
<br>---> Hmm..never mentioned that. I don't advise anyone to update their day-to-day production environment to a dev environment without understanding the risks. That dark abyss only awaits you... </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
I think it is _much_ more important for OI in general to actually
support present and existing users and hardware at a moment.<br clear="none">
It is all great to have newer hardware support but I think that
removing driver and Xorg support for existing widespread graphics
hardware, will toss away new users from testing "bleading edge"
development releases, and is disastrous to the future of OI Hipster
project.<br clear="none">
<br>--> We do support existing users which is why it was done. Updates were requested long ago. That is why</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr">I mentioned those other distros. That is why oi_151a releases are provided and the older Hipster releases still </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr">exist.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_7595" dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
I suggest there could be solution of leaving Xorg and driver support
where it is for existing intel graphics users. I don't see any
benefit of tossing it away.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Thing is, I have been wrestling with Hipster for a very long time
now and I don't see a point of it anymore.<br clear="none">
There are no formed teams, there are no pointed and publicly
discussed goals for a project.<div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd12377" dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
---> We didn't drop any Intel support outside of what the new Intel 2.99.917 driver provides today. Oh, and I misspoke earlier about GSoC. Sadly, it seems the mentor application date for GSoC 2015 was missed.</div><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd12377" dir="ltr">We'd like to support your Intel GPU-based laptop and desktop needs - and respect your opinions. Just that we made some hard decisions to get us to this point. Its nice to know faithful people users are using the OI distro for this long, so we'll work on resolving some of issues mentioned... </div><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd12377" dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd12377" dir="ltr">~K</div><div class="yiv8923596857yqt3134709390" id="yiv8923596857yqtfd12377" dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div><br><div class="yqt3134709390" id="yqtfd18815">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">oi-dev mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oi-dev@openindiana.org" href="mailto:oi-dev@openindiana.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_170030">oi-dev@openindiana.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev" target="_blank" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1424766772138_170031">http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev</a></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>