[oi-dev] OpenIndiana and illumos

[Garrett D'Amore]

On Thu, 2010-11-18 at 03:32 +0100, Jesus Cea wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 18/11/10 02:34, Garrett D'Amore wrote:
> > And to those of you running OI "in production", you're nuts.  OI has had
> > exactly "one" release (of dubious quality), and has a sum total of a
> > half dozen engineers behind it; and I'm not sure all of them are
> > actually software engineers and not just integrators.  I sure as heck
> > don't advocate illumos for production use *yet*, even though my own
> > desktop runs it.  (Although I'm working hard to get it into a condition
> > when I will be happy to do so.)
> 
> Please, be more polite. If you pretend to join effort, you should not
> start insulting.

"Pretend to join effort"?

I am the founder of the illumos project, and have probably done more to
liberate Solaris technology post-Oracle-acquisition than anyone else.

I'm not trying to pretend anything.  I'm trying to figure out how we can
move forward, because right now OI and illumos have connection that is
very tenuous at best. 

> 
> OI has provided hope for some of us. OI team already explicitly said
> that the plan is to move to Illumos. Having "something" filling the gap
> between OpenSolaris and a future Illumos based release is keeping people
> interested in the technology instead of flying away in flocks.

I understand that, although there have been releases since, and b147 is
available today.  Plus there is SX11.  Continuing to burn cycles on b148
that could have been better spent addressing the real future needs is
what bugs me.  And more to the point, I'm being constrained from making
improvements I need to (in illumos-gate) by lagging OI.  And most
grievously, it is OI's pseudo-compatibility goals with Oracle's releases
(and now with its own prior releases) that create some of the biggest
handicaps.

> 
> So, OI has a role.
> 
> What do you want from OI people?. If they are only half a dozen
> "integrators", what kind of help you want from these poor guys?.

I want to help them.  But I can't do that while they are stuck trying to
follow in Oracle's footsteps.  *If* we can move forward, I can help them
and probably *double* their resource.  If we can't do that, then I'll
probably wind up spending that resource starting a new project instead.

> 
> OI doesn't distract people, because Illumos has no a release yet. It is
> keeping people interested, the joy alive. When is Illumos going to have
> something to integrate in OI?.

Illumos has something *today*.  But the OI folks are not working with us
on this.  *That* is what bugs me.

> 
> I hate the idea of waiting a year to enjoy illumos with NOTHING to use
> meanwhile. Thanks god we have OpenIndiana.
> 
> That said, I want OI to use Illumos as fast as possible.

So do I.  But it won't happen as long as they are following instead of
leading.

As I said, I can throw significant resources at helping the transition,
*if* the transition is going to happen and if we can stop worrying about
following Oracle.  But if they want to keep tracking Oracle, then I
should go spend my energies elsewhere.

	- Garrett