[oi-dev] Time for Divorce from Oracle (was Re: pkg5 Linked Images)

[Alasdair Lumsden]

Hi Bayard,

On 31 May 2011, at 09:56, Bayard Bell wrote:
> So here's my quandry about this particular thread: I'm pretty supportive of the need to be less dependent on Oracle for a number of things. As I see it, Oracle's doing well enough with JDS, xnv, and pkg, and with the rest there's just too much chaff to make it worth our while. I'm fine with the idea that things like userland can be done better if we roll our own.
> 
> In the thread that's brought this to the fore, I don't see that this is what tells us to split further from Oracle. We're still saying we want to use IPS, and any problems linked images creates because of related changes in snv that are unavailable to us are effectively passed on to the Illumos  upstream, who are also committed to using IPS. I can't say I've fully read and apprehended the linked images architecture doc, but what I understand of the objectives tells me that this isn't something we should casually pass on, certainly not without feedback from Illumos. I think it muddies the waters a bit if further taking a few steps further back from Oracle comes up in a context that's quite distinct from the compelling reason to do so and turns out to be a matter on which we seem to remain close.

The issue of Linked Images is a completely unrelated topic, a technical topic that needs to be discussed in the other thread. The design, merits and pitfalls are something that we will have to discuss with Illumos once we better understand the design/consequences.

Forking/Divorcing is a separate issue uninfluenced by linked images.

> It's as much the language of divorce that makes me feel more equivocal on this. It's more like OpenIndiana and Oracle are an estranged couple who have been living apart for a while. We're coming to announce that we're officially moving out from Oracle's place (since we've already been living with Illumos for some time), never to return or reconcile, but it's really important to us that we continue spending time with people like alanc. It's a further de facto separation, and we're trying to make sure it doesn't go too much like Woody Allen's Interiors. There nevertheless ties that continue to bind, so divorce isn't quite the word.

I wouldn't use the term divorce either. We're not talking about becoming enemies with Oracle, or stopping collaborating where there is collaboration. We're simply talking about forking as a way of managing the source code, and as a way of promoting the distribution as more than just a cheap copy of Solaris 11/S11X.

We'll still import from upstream where we see benefit, and we'll still be completely open and friendly, and we'll definitely push collaboration with our Oracle friends.

> I prefer this analogy to describing OpenIndiana as a new identity for OpenSolaris, now a liberated minor and coming into her own, despite the neglect of stepfather Oracle, who married her destitute mother, Sun, and then threw her out of the house.

That's how I see it too (well, the OI as a new identity for OpenSolaris as a liberated entity coming into its own, rather than a neglected stepchild of Oracle :-D)

Cheers,

Alasdair