[OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana-discuss Digest: gibberish post

Tue Oct 11 13:12:06 UTC 2011

Sorry about the gibberish message. Apparently my two year old had my blackberry at some point.
Sent from my BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: openindiana-discuss-request at openindiana.org
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:15:34 
To: <openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org>
Reply-To: openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org
Subject: OpenIndiana-discuss Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Help with website (Alasdair Lumsden)
   2. Re: Help with website (Richard L. Hamilton)
   3. Re: Help with website (Dan Swartzendruber)
   4. A (Butch Whitby)
   5. Re: A (Dan Swartzendruber)
   6. Re: Help with website (Alasdair Lumsden)
   7. Re: Help with website (Gregory Youngblood)
   8. Re: A (Gregory Youngblood)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:56:04 +0100
From: Alasdair Lumsden <alasdairrr at gmail.com>
To: openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
Message-ID: <4E939424.3080506 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi All,

Please, for the sake of everybody's sanity, can people chill out and 
stop arguing.

This thread started as someone wanting to volunteer to help the project, 
and it has descended into a flame fest. I'd kindly ask that people 
respect the rules of the mailing list and stop flaming each other.

Remember this is a public forum, and when people google your name, they 
will find these posts; they are preserved forever.

Think before hitting the send button.

Regards,

Alasdair

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:56:16 -0400
From: "Richard L. Hamilton" <rlhamil at smart.net>
To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana
	<openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
Message-ID: <3E68A0C9-3487-4EE0-BE23-8E751B0A78F4 at smart.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

On Oct 10, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Dan Swartzendruber wrote:

> 
> Richard, you continue to miss the point.  This isn't about you (OS) vs me
> (linux).  I would wager that for every opensolaris user there are at least
> 10 linux users.  Getting them to use OS (which is better in many ways,
> granted), making the environment more familiar is essential, IMO.  You are
> of course, free to disagree.  Just saying, I've been through this before?

That assumes that there's a benefit of converting people from Linux to OS/OI.

I see no benefit for OS/OI users (numbers of users rather than clue-bringers don't build a community) nor for that matter, for the Linux users, in promoting that conversion on terms that displace those already there to make room for those coming over.

Unless of course you really think that OS/OI is well short of the minimum viable number.  I don't happen to think that's the case, but I'll admit I'm biased towards smaller numbers anyway, since the majority is nothing to brag about (look at a bell curve sometime).

I'd go so far as to say why not take some existing migration guide and flesh it out.  Or improve coexistence, if a migration guide would impose too much of a burden on the newcomers.  Or whatever.  But don't expect those already here to take in the shorts for the sake of attracting newcomers.  It's exactly like the border debate.  My view is that those here should not have to accommodate themselves to new arrivals.  Let them assimilate or go back.  We may need some immigrants?on _our_ terms, but if we need them on _their_ terms, we're already dead as a distinct community.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:59:51 -0400
From: "Dan Swartzendruber" <dswartz at druber.com>
To: "'Discussion list for OpenIndiana'"
	<openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
Message-ID: <A4261BA4FCBD48AFAE21EC99CE277A73 at manticore>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Alasdair, thank you.  I apologize for my intemperate language.  The
frustration at people's apparent inability to get the point I was trying to
make doesn't justify it.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:03:12 +0000
From: "Butch Whitby" <jwhitby3 at gmail.com>
To: openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org
Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A
Message-ID:
	<420246489-1318294993-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-675200187- at b14.c31.bise6.blackberry>

Content-Type: text/plain

Jjjk

KkKkik

De

Sent from my BlackBerry

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:04:14 -0400
From: "Dan Swartzendruber" <dswartz at druber.com>
To: "'Discussion list for OpenIndiana'"
	<openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A
Message-ID: <93A2E1112B4F496D9CCC0B8206004BB0 at manticore>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Tourette's?

-----Original Message-----
From: Butch Whitby [mailto:jwhitby3 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:03 PM
To: openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org
Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A

Jjjk

KkKkik

De

Sent from my BlackBerry

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 02:11:20 +0100
From: Alasdair Lumsden <alasdairrr at gmail.com>
To: openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
Message-ID: <4E9397B8.30202 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 10/11/11 01:59 AM, Dan Swartzendruber wrote:
> Alasdair, thank you.  I apologize for my intemperate language.  The
> frustration at people's apparent inability to get the point I was trying to
> make doesn't justify it.

The message was to everyone who contributed to the thread going way way 
off topic.

The topic was "Help with website" and somehow we got onto "X vs Y". 
Let's keep it focused on the former and not the latter.

The mission statement behind OI is to make it really good OS that's easy 
to use for newcomers whilst not sacrificing quality or our Solaris 
heritage. Nobody is obliged to use OI, nor is OI ideologically better or 
worse than any other OS. It occupies a unique space in the unixsphere. 
That's the end of the discussion.

If you want to discuss things further, create a new thread for it. Don't 
hijack existing threads. That's standard mailing list etiquette.

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:14:02 -0700
From: Gregory Youngblood <gregory at youngblood.me>
To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana
	<openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Help with website
Message-ID: <25731EEA-B655-4781-A464-07D593672401 at youngblood.me>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Oct 10, 2011, at 5:42 PM, Christopher Chan wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 08:32 AM, Dan Swartzendruber wrote:
>> 
>> Quite true.  At this point, though, the admin space is the issue.
> 
> I come from a Linux background with my experience being done on Redhat Linux, Fedora, Centos and Ubuntu. I have also worked on FreeBSD and OpenBSD. I do not see a problem in the admin space. You can get various GNU tools on OpenIndiana. 

And it's been that way for a very long time. I remember one of my early tasks was to get gnu tools on solaris (2.4? 2.5?) server where it was then nfs exported to all the other servers and available somewhere like /usr/local (maybe it was /usr/local/gnu?). This was right as it was released and sunfreeware didn't yet have all the stuff readily available for download. I believe this was 97 or 98 time frame.

I ended building packages for just about all the gnu (and several non-gnu, but common) tools so they were proper solaris "packages" to boot. The end result, all of our servers had the gnu tools. Which were default depended on your path. 

I think the perceived problem in the admin space depends on the depth of experience of the admin too. Admins that only know one (or maybe, MAYBE 2) linux distribution(s) become so entrenched in their distro of choice they have a hard time seeing any other options (including other Linux options). The more well rounded admins don't have such a problem.

I can tell you of one friend that is a well rounded Linux guy and his impression of OpenSolaris and OpenIndiana: Linux in 95. His personal beef was with the extremely limited hardware support. He spent quite a bit of time trying to get just the right sata card and chipset and still had problems with getting things working that he finally gave up. This was less than a year ago too.

The biggest issues with getting Linux or others to check out and use OI isn't email vs. forums, gnu or not user space tools, etc., it's driver support and documentation, and often the attitude they seem to frequently get when they come looking for help.

Greg

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:15:31 -0700
From: Gregory Youngblood <gregory at youngblood.me>
To: Discussion list for OpenIndiana
	<openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A
Message-ID: <2B5DA21F-0CB8-47B5-BAC7-3295C0291166 at youngblood.me>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Pocket-emailing?

On Oct 10, 2011, at 6:04 PM, Dan Swartzendruber wrote:

> Tourette's?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Butch Whitby [mailto:jwhitby3 at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 9:03 PM
> To: openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org
> Subject: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A
> 
> Jjjk
> 
> 
> KkKkik
> 
> De
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list
> OpenIndiana-discuss at openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> OpenIndiana-discuss at openindiana.org
> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss

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End of OpenIndiana-discuss Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25
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