[OpenIndiana-discuss] 32-bit support in OpenIndiana Hipster

Sat Jan 23 03:24:11 UTC 2016

Hello,

>
> I saw no call for discussion, only an official statement that 32-bit
> support is dropped.
>

There is such thing as "official statement" here, just volunteers
evaluating what can be achieved in a realistic way and given the demand.

>
> If the source for the installer is there, it's well-hidden.
>

Since there is an issue regarding how the information is laid out, you are
welcome to report it and I will try to fix it... but I cannot fix something
that has not be brought to my attention.

> More importantly, there is no reference to that Github repository

at http://wiki.openindiana.org/display/oi/Developing+OpenIndiana
> which is a link from the main OpenIndiana wiki. [Incidentally,
> the most recent entry to the "Developing OpenIndiana" page
> is dated 2012].
> So how do you expect people to find out about it?
>

Go to the website: http://www.openindiana.org/ upper right corner.

Then "Getting Involved":
http://www.openindiana.org/community/getting-involved/

"We have development servers available which can be booked, publicly
available IPS development repositories for updating to the latest builds,
and Git repositories <https://github.com/OpenIndiana/> for checking out the
latest source code."

Also, looking for it on the Wiki:

http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/Building+the+Operating+System => Installers
and live media tools

http://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/Building+slim_source+%28Caiman%29 =>
Mercurial repository for 151a installer.

I agree that this should be updated.

There have been several mentions on the mailing lists that the Wiki needs
some rework and several people have volunteered to help out.
However since all of us contribute in our spare time the pace cannot be
stellar.

I spent a week end updating the website theme and since then adjusting some
content when time permits.
I understand that the situation is far from perfect but you should ask and
point out the issue.

> Then there's OpenIndiana.  Won't even install on modest-memory
> 32-bit systems,

Until 2 years ago I used OpenIndiana on a Thinkpad X41 with 1.5GB RAM and
an old unofficial ISOs on a SUN Fire v100 with a USII 650MHz and 2GB RAM
which is basically less powerful than my current smartphone.
If you have an old x86 computer with less then 1GB RAM and a 32bit
processor then OI is not for you.
But honestly given the power inefficiency I would not bother running this
type of machine nowadays.
They may be still running but they are not worth the electricity bill nor
the time investment for supporting them.

I bought my first 64bit system, an IBM eserver 325 (2 Opterons 250 with 8GB
RAM) almost ten years ago for 250 euros... I would not even bother running
it these days.

> installs as 32-bit on modest-memory 64-bit systems
> (and is sluggish).

If you use the 32bit kernel I am not surprised, I have a similar experience.
But again... Thinkpad X60s with Core Duo 64bit and 2GB used for development
during two years...

If there's any CPU frequency scaling or power
> consumption scaling support, I haven't been able to find it.  No
> support for hardware sensors, not even HDD temperature sensors
> via SMART on SATA drives (at least not on i86 systems).  Poor FS
> support (no working ext2 FS support, for example).

Ext2 supported via FUSE, NTFS as well but personnally I do not care.

>   An ancient
> version of Xfree86 that doesn't support non-VESA (e.g. large
> pixel-count, 16:9 aspect ratio) display resolution/aspect ratio.
>

I do not understand this point...

> Very limited GUI options(basically GNOME, and w/o pkg GUI tol
> on "Hipster" [BTW,that name is very off-putting],

I hope you do not intend to offend all the great jazzmen to which this name
applied originally ;)

> although it is
> possible to have partially-working alternatives (KDE,
> Enlightenment, etc) via the Joyent/SmartOS pkgsrc repository
> ( http://wiki.smartos.org/display/DOC/Installing+pkgin )).
>

That's one issue if people do not interact on the ML and tried to pick
software somewhere else: it will never land in oi-userland.
Several times I have packaged software which I absolutely do *not* care
about, on people's request and just out of courtesy (and during my
week-ends).
If you need something and do ask on the ML then you should blame yourself
in the first place.

People cannot complain for months about the lack of a given package, when
actually writing the Makefile for oi-userland, building, pushing and
opening the pull request may take 15 minutes.
Same applies to bug reports opened for months when 2 minutes of Googling
fixes the issue.

If you do not report smoething and this something is not fixed, do not
worry: it is perfectly normal.

> Ancient ("legacy") version of grub.

What are the missing features ? Is there a file system missing for
multiboot ? Or is it just "legacy" for the sake of "legacy" ?
Honestly I do not know, I only use OI on full disks.

Syslog appears to lack
> RFC 5424 format support.  A number of 32- vs. 64-bit
> issues (time_t, library availability, default compilation setting).
>

What is the library availability and default compilation settings you are
talking about ? Can you give more information ?

> In short, a great many things that would need work,
> compounded by poor development information (see above).
>

Then instead of building up frustration and anger, please raise the
question on the mailing list.
For instance I have been trying to provide Enlightenment and posted about
it a long time ago: if you had contacted me, we could have moved further.

What you fail to understand is that OpenIndiana is supported by a small
community, not big companies pouring millions of dollars in pre-chewing
everything so that people can compile it out of the box, put a logo on it
and call it a distribution.

If you do not interact, do not steer/support the decision process and do
not contribute then things are unlikely to go your way.

> And I haven't mentioned the learning curves associated
> with Solaris-specific stuff (ZFS, zones, boot environments,
> svcadm, etc.).
>

I think man pages are very well written and that Solarish tools are well
integrated but that's only my personal opinion.
Also APIs are well described.

>
> There are many Linux users and developers looking for
> alternatives because of the systemd debacle -- where do
> you think they will go? [that's a rhetorical question]
>

Most of them, after complaining, will eventually stay with the Linux
distributions because it is the easiest and major companies like Intel
provide leading edge hardware support.
Some, for the beauty of it, may want to help building something else (one
of the *BSD beauties, some cranky old fashioned illumos system).... and
they are most welcome.

> Another point: I recently put together some small systems
> for educating children (and their parents!) about open-source
> computing.  The systems have DoudouLinux <http://www.doudoulinux.org/> and
> NetBSD
> installed.  As these are modest-memory systems (fine for
> educational use, web browsing, light office suite use, etc.),
> OpenIndiana wouldn't install.   So the kids and their parents
> will learn about Linux and BSD, but not "genuine UNIX".
> Does that (should it) matter to the OpenIndiana project?
>

You are disappointed about aspects of OI and this is understandable but you
cannot blame volunteers for not providing what you want if you do not
interact and report.

Personally, I contribute to OI in my spare time, I fix what I can (which is
little compared to Alexander, Ken, Thomas, Adam, Martin etc...) and I have
absolutely *zero* interest in supporting old 32bit systems for hobbyists:
there are more important things, like some of the items you listed.

Final word: a *real* community-driven project like OI relies on *everyone*
unlike many Linux distributions for which the majority of "volunteers" are
full time employees or contributing in the scope of their work.

There are many tasks opened for contribution: documentation, migration of
consolidations, testing, artwork, tutorials... they are just waiting for
*YOU* ;) If you do not know where to start: just ask.

Time to go back to sleep after insomnia :S

Sorry about this very long message.
Best regards,

Aurelien