[OpenIndiana-discuss] Shell to use?

[Judah Richardson]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 9:45 AM Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss <
openindiana-discuss at openindiana.org> wrote:

> Regardless of it's good behavior or not, this does give Linux a huge
> advantage over us.
> The different is significant.
> If we want to continue to keep our Solaris heritage and continue to
> ridicule Linux, then OK, it's fine.
> This is a note for anyone going to use Illumos as a build server: it will
> almost double the cost compared to a Linux/FreeBSD build server.
>
Anecdotally, I can tell you that OI needed twice the RAM FreeBSD and Debian
did on the same hardware to run happily on my end. That said, Unix in
general was never about low TCO. Linux and Windows democratized and
commoditized computing in a way Unix never intended and is still struggling
to adapt to.

Using Illumos is not for performance, but for stability. At least it's what
> I hear, I have never able to confirm if it's really more stable than
> Linux/FreeBSD or not.
>
Of all the OSes I run, in my experience (and in descending order of
stability): Debian > OI (with >= 16 GB RAM) > FreeBSD > Ubuntu = Windows =
Google Android = Samsung One UI > Raspberry Pi OS > LineageOS

It's all from people's mouths.
> Illumos full fill a niche market and it's better stay in that market.
> Meanwhile, Linux/FreeBSD is for general purpose.
>
>
> I'm going to build an Illumos based sever (VPS), could be OI or OmniOS, to
> cross compile software for MS Windows using the mingw-w64 cross compiler.
> I used to very glad because I think finally I found an application for
> this OS.
> Now I have to reconsider.
> mingw-w64 currently failed to compile on OI. I have forwarded the message
> about that from pkgsrc-users to this list. But no one cares.
> I still hope having mingw-w64 compile and working. But this hope is fading.
> Given the cost: an Illumos based server cost almost double: more memory
> needed, more disk space needed (ZFS can't be shrink, but EXT4 is fine with
> this), almost 4x slower the compilation times.
> I think I would rather build a Debian based server instead. The host
> provider already have a working Debian 10 image. If using FreeBSD, I have
> to upload custom ISO.
>
>
> This also give an end for my dream of my own Illumos distro.
> I used to think it would be based on Tribblix but uses my own pkgsrc
> binary repo.
> Overtime I would build illumos-gate myself and have it export to pkgsrc
> compatible packages, too, alongside IPS packages.
> Without depending on IPS, my distro, like Tribblix, could still able to
> install on UFS!
> You know? Tribblix's ZAP package manager doesn't support package
> dependencies!
> You have to grab a whole overlay which many useless things you don't need
> just to have a package you need with it proper dependencies.
> I and Peter disagreed deeply about this. Each of us have our own opinions.
>
> This is all end now.
>
>
>
>
> ---- On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 18:41:48 +0700 david allan finch <
> david.allan at finch.org> wrote ----
>
>  > On 01/19/21 06:50 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:
>  > > I have always noticed that Solaris (and OpenIndiana) is slower to
> fork
>  > > processes than Linux or FreeBSD.  It seems slower to enlarge the
>  > > process address space as well (perhaps because it does not lie).
>  >
>  > This is because Linux lies to an app about new page allocation, until
>  > you attually write to a page it doesn't attually exist at all, Solaris
>  > (at least used to) allocates a page and cleans it (or make it sparse).
>  > This means it is possible on Linux to look like you have lots a memory
>  > and then suddenly runout. Solaris also use a copy on write system at
>  > forking (which I think Linux copied), that is why they are so much
>  > faster than Windows, which attually has to start a new process and copy
>  > the whole address space todo a fork, which is why it just easier to
> just
>  > start a new process rather than fork/exec on windows.
>  >
>  >
>  >
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