[oi-dev] [HEADSUP] X server update in OpenIndiana Hipster

[Nikola M]

On 02/24/15 01:18 AM, ken mays via oi-dev wrote:
> Nikolai,
>
Hi, my name is Nikola (without 'i') ;)
> As far as Intel DRM work for illumos, that is proposed for GSoC 2015 
> development which ends Q4 2015.
It is great to know.
It is then unknown what people with Intel graphics will do with their 
hardware, that want to install on and test Hipster in meantime?
Also removing support for older graphics is never discussed anywhere as 
I know (we were just hit by update and people started reporting 
disastrous effects to their desktops). It is just done without asking.
Maybe reconsider of leaving supported Xorg and drivers in their place or 
with an old/new name so it could be auto recognized and used?
>
> As far as Martin, there is Martin's OpenSXCE distro. He currently 
> mentioned a new release.

There's no source code that follows OpenSXCE releases, correct me if I 
am wrong.

> Also, there is Tribblix. Both distros are desktop-centric and support 
> older Intel GPU chipsets (but not the newer ones). There is still the 
> Hipster-20141010 ISO release you use today.

So you suggest moving from OI Hipster to other distro if wanting to 
continue using existing hardware?

It is funny to call Hipster ISOs - releases, because it could be said 
that then publishers that are installed with them could receive updates 
and support?
Which I am not sure it right, because actual reason ISOs and freezes of 
Hipster exist is because Hipster re-build all packages all the time and 
because updating takes longer and longer, there is need for starting 
from blank history of updates, so that installing packages dont' consume 
so much RAM and takes so long, not tend to give support?
Also ISOs are there in Hipster to be able to install it on bare 
metal/hardware , because updating from /dev to Hipster last time worked 
almost 2 years ago and no one actually care to have release that could 
update from /dev.

>
> As far as Hipster, there are the supported ISO releases. The 
> Hipster-2015 IPS repo is a moving target (considered 'dev', bleeding 
> edge, or 'hair on fire' development) not for general production or 
> day-to-day operations. There are other snapshots that may produce 
> 'tested' package releases - which is really what you are discussing. 
> True development releases are never for the general public (aka users) 
> - if untested by 'QA'.

We need then something that actually IS for end users as a product of an 
effort.
Hipster is not that kind of product, and yes, there is need for tested 
product.

As I used Hipster for exactly everyday work for a long time (and 
reported all bugs I could on IRC and lists) , I must confess I have seen 
accumulation of bugs without fixing.
Is it better "updating everything and not caring for introduced bugs" or 
"have working  AND development releases separate from each other", with 
clear intent that updates work - is maybe better solution?

>
> If you are tracking new releases from Hipster Dev which happens to 
> plunge your desktop environment into a dark abyss, remember the rule: 
> Either press the panic button or don't do it!!!
That would not be the case IF Hipster would have "entire" package 
numbered on every update,
so that user can update to specific point in time in Hipster updates,
to debug what change break what already working function of an OS.
You always get "latest" Hipster , with no way of turning a step back and 
think if update was introducing more bugs of fixing existing ones.

With Boot Environments on top of ZFS, we using and testing OI have best 
possible solutions for testing it is just that we don't use what we have 
to the full.
>
> The drop of support for the older Intel driver is by design of the 
> newer X infrastructure - not us. We are moving to the newer Xorg Intel 
> driver(s) and when Intel DRM for illumos is in place - we will strike 
> the iron while hot...
So as I understand, Intel support for OI Hipster will never come back,
and there is nothing to do, but to roll separate distro or use other 
distro but OI Hipster so that graphics could continue to work? (Or wait 
for 2 years for illumos DRM to land...)

I think it is _much_ more important for OI in general to actually 
support present and existing users and hardware at a moment.
It is all great to have newer hardware support but I think that removing 
driver and Xorg support for existing widespread grahics hardware, will 
toss away new users from testing "bleading edge" development releases, 
and is disastrous to the future of OI Hipster project.

I suggest there could be solution of leaving Xorg and driver support 
where it is for existing intel graphics users. I don't see any benefit 
of tossing it away.

Thing is, I have been wrestling with Hipster for a very long time now 
and I don't see a point of it anymore.
There are no formed teams, there are  no pointed and publicly discussed 
goals for a project.

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