[OpenIndiana-discuss] 2031 is near

[Nikola M]

On 01/29/17 12:53 AM, Adam Števko wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> Of course it is related to OI and there is no other list to mention it on actually, that is closer to the topic.
>> I don't think asking people not to discuss and talk is positive community influence, asking people to shut up is an negative influence.
> No, it is not. If Oracle decides to stop developing Solaris we can do nothing about.

Yes it is. And Oracle is not stopping of supporting and developing 
Solaris, that is just again repeating misleading news outlets inventions.

> I am not asking people to stop discussing. I am asking then stop discussing about something, we:

However you call it, it is just rude and inappropriate and as said goes 
out of the scope and decency.
If you don't want to stop people discussing, then you just don't do it.

> 1) have no control over and is useless to debate

It's your opinion thank you for it but it is just that..
Someone could argue that even more useless is calling people and their 
discussion useless. That is by definition totally useless.

> 2) facts are misinterpreted as Alan pointed out

That IS the point and that is the point of discussion, to show that news 
on internet is full of sh. and who is going to tell people about it then 
those interested in it and sharing the code with it.

> If that energy was spent working on the project itself, we would be accomplish more. There are around 30 pull requests on github, which are pending review / testing and no one has replied to my threads when I asked people for review.

It is great to support people spending energy on positive things, 
however, preaching silence , non interaction and robotized goal-seek 
behavior is not what vibrant and open community is.
As you are supposedly to learn from this discussion, you can't force 
people doing things, one can motivate and responding to every topic you 
are not interested in by stopping discussion by force is not good for 
you nor anyone.

> The fact that OI uses IPS/Xorg from Oracle Solaris does not mean that those repositories will vanish overnight if Oracle stop producing updates

Where did you get it that Oracle would stop producing updates to it's 
open-source parts? It is just adding to the media bias and adding to 
assumptions.

> (we still have copy of those). Our IPS is not the same as in Oracle Solaris and having up to date version on OI would be great. There are also a few problems with getting older IPS features (e.g. zone proxy) working on OI. Why do people tend to waste time with useless debates? There is work to be done..

Because talks (not debates) are needed to inform, exchange ideas, 
correct one another , learn new things from one another, organize, 
support, getting to know each other and all the things that make human 
communication usable in everyday life.
Life is not all work work work, but people tend to find better ways of 
doing things, by communicating.
And you should not bash people calling them wasting time.
If people talk talk talk and then get some ideas and do something new 
that is the way of inclusion of the new people. No one gets included 
before at least talking with someone.

It is important to talk about general Solaris and Opensolaris-descendent 
ecosystem, where, for example, SpecFilesExtra on sfe.opencsw.org and 
PkgBuild project is building software for both illumos and IPS distros, 
including Openindiana and at the same time, tend to have same 'recepies' 
usable on Solaris too.
So we still share up to the point ecosystem, people and systems with 
Solaris and one can say we are all Solaris folks since maintaining and 
managing haven't diverge too much over time.


>
> Eh, if somebody is bashing OI somewhere, you should debate it there, so others can see it. Debating it on this mailing list is of no use (as not everybody is following it)

Yes, but is is also important to have facts straight in home place, 
because if it not told and sorted out that that "Solaris going away" 
mantra is total bullshit (not untill 2031/34 at least..) then how is it 
suppose to be said elsewhere.

Of course reaction need to be there (if reactions are not intentionally 
stopped or something) and people are supposed to have more freedom on 
their own distro mailing list in discussing then, without anyone gagging 
them even here.
So talking is of very big use, people get things straight, get more 
informed with right facts.

Actually talking to people to stop talking is an form of trolling.

>
>> illumos and Openindiana does not compete with Solaris, they each have they use cases and support models.
> It doesn’t as illumos has much smaller user base as Solaris does and illumos never had a goal to compete with Solaris. illumos’ ancestry is just an advantage for us, but it doesn’t mean that Solaris affects us anyhow,

Of course it is affecting us as users of what happens with Solaris. 
People using illumos are not only coming form Linux landscape, but same 
people using Solaris are using illumos and vice versa.

>
>> Linux is illumos competition and Linux drones are bashing everything non-Linux on internet news comments, so there is even more then need to react to media bias.
> You should react where the bashing was published and not here. What’s the point of debating the bashing here if people who bash OI/illumos will not read it?

General public opinion on both Solaris and all Opensolaris descendents 
is in stake, and if we are not defending it's existance, who will then?
Being in silence and silenced when media outlets are spreading 
half-truth or lies is not a good recipe for staying afloat in public 
opinion.
It got to be reacted upon, because we witnessed that if not reacted, 
people could adopt half-truths and lies and that goes directly against 
project existence.
I am surprised I have to spell all of these things, because if they are 
bashing Solaris they would much easier bash OI or illumos and people got 
to take stand on responding to that.


>
>> I would actually rather select Oracle Solaris then some corporate Linux distro if I am forced on having dead-serious mission-critical support contracts.
>> Recognizing benefits of Linux, but even after more then 8 years since Opensolaris 2009.06, usability for serious use of any Linux distribution is far below Openindiana/illumos.
> That’s just your pick. However, 99% of the market thinks differently..

You should obviously support OI/ilumos usage and spreading, if not that 
is a question.
There are users, there are customers, there are big or small cloud 
operators and just smaller percent of them is 'market' but many of them 
certainly doesn't see Linux as the only 'holy grail' of free software.

Actually 99% of people doesn't know and doesn't care what they are 
actually using and want to have their work done, if you think about 
those, then yes. Otherwise, no, project admins certainly thing long and 
hard about what they could be using.

> I am not saying that people shouldn’t discuss things on this mailing. I am just asking people to follow a simple rule and to discuss things related to OpenIndiana.

If you still didn't get it - people showed by their responses that topic 
IS related to Openindiana and you are overwhelmingly in minority.
Just by responding further you are actually continuing thread existance, 
but thank you for sharing your thoughts, that are supposedly right or wrong.
As additional, you can't force topics out of the list just because you 
are not interested in them.
If not interested in topic, one can ignore topics and that is what topic 
names are for. No other 'call for not talk' is needed..

> After all, this mailing list is called OpenIndiana-discuss and neither solaris-discuss or oracle-discuss. If somebody wishes to debate one unrelated corporation’s business decision, please do so, but not on this mailing list.

If anyone is wishing to debate anything it is included in their freedom 
of expression and you can pretty much keep your people-controlling ideas 
to yourself.

You are just plainly wrong. Solaris position in the market is still 
closely related to Openindiana position in the free software operating 
system market.
Maybe that is not obvious from creating standing point but is more then 
obvious from as you say, 'marketplace' view of available OSes.